 We have a very special League guest for you all today. Jonathan Lyons agreed to take some time out today to discuss agenting, the market for urban fantasy, and reveal a personal secret or two.I have to admit a bit of bias here because Jonathan is my agent. In addition to being a fantastic agent with deadly laywer-fu skills, he also approachable and funny. Help us give him a hearty League welcome, will ya? Hi, Jonathan! Welcome. First, tell us a little bit about yourself and your agency. I am a licensed attorney and president of Lyons Literary LLC. I represent a select list of writers in various genres, including narrative non-fiction, history, food writing, biographies, women's issues, pop culture, sports, true crime, mysteries, thrillers, literary fiction, near future science fiction, and contemporary fantasy (of course). Agency clients include finalists for the Pulitzer Prize, National Book Award, and PEN/Hemingway Award, nominees and winners of the Beard Foundation Award and Coretta Scott King Award, winner of the PWA Shamus Award and CWA Ellis Peters Award, and more. On a more personal note, I grew up in the mighty state of Texas, just like Jaye. I've been gone long enough to lose my accent, but I've retained my passion for Mexican food and the San Antonio Spurs. And I'm suspicious of frozen vegetables and people who don't read. Is it possible to get good Mexican food in New York? I've been searching for ten years, and the only places I've found that are any good are expensive. What I would do for a Taco Cabana! You've said on your blog that you're actively looking for urban fantasy. What are you looking for specifically and who are your favorite UF authors? Secret history stuff is always fun, and I think there could be more done with human protagonists struggling in a world that has become dominated by magic. But I'm really looking for any type of contemporary or near future fantasy (which includes urban fantasy). My only requirements are that it's original, well-written and set on this planet, though I'm fine with things leaking over from alternate worlds into ours and vice versa. As for my favorite UF authors, I'm a Jim Butcher fanatic, but I also really enjoy reading Ilona Andrews, Patty Briggs, Kim Harrison, and Jaye Wells, of course. Naturally. Now, we hear a lot of scuttlebutt around the internet that vampires are passe. Are you finding this to be the case? Not at all. I know some agents and editors have said this, but I think what they really mean is that aspiring writers need to twist the myths an original and compelling way. After all, readers certainly aren't sick of vampires--Mario Acevedo, Ilona Andrews, Kelley Armstrong, Patty Briggs, Jim Butcher, Karen Chance, Laura Anne Gilman, Laurell K. Hamilton, Charlaine Harris, Kim Harrison, Tanya Huff, Kat Richardson, and Jeri Smith-Ready are just a few of the many successful authors with vampires in their stories. There also seems to be some confusion about the difference between urban fantasy and paranormal romance out there. What's your opinion? I think that if the plot centers around a romance and the relationship between the protagonist and his/her love interest ends happily you're writing paranormal romance. If the plot centers around a mystery and the relationship between the protagonist and his/her love interest ends unhappily you're writing urban fantasy. Advances and sales are generally higher for the latter. What are some of the pitfalls of writing urban fantasy that you're seeing in submissions recently? Characterization, world building, plotting, lack of originality, all of the above? I've certainly seen problems in all of these areas, but one thing I've noticed recently is that some writers seem to focus so much on the world-building that they forget about all of the other elements that go into making a good urban fantasy, like a strong mystery. Another problem I've seen recently in submissions are writers crossing over the line from creating an attractive bad-ass of a protagonist with a sarcastic wit and good fashion sense to creating an inaccessible and annoying lead character. What advice would you give an aspiring writer who's struggling with rejection? I wish I had some magical advice here, but sadly rejection seems to be a part of the process. I hope that aspiring writers can find some solace in the universality of it, and also find hope in the success stories they hear from authors. I know this sounds very Jiminy Cricket, but I truly believe that if you have the talent and you work hard enough that success will come your way, eventually. And if push comes to shove, I suggest trying to remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it." Oooh, nice Big Trouble in Little China reference. You're a movie buff, right? Huge. My first passion is books, but I love movies too. I'm not sure if Steve Martin's character in Grand Canyon was right when he said that all of life's riddles are answered in the movies, but I think a lot of them are. So, we all hear about what to look for in an agent, but what do you look for in an author? First and foremost, I look for professionalism. For me this means working hard and doing your best to meet deadlines. It means being open to revisions (though I'm not suggesting you have to make every change either your editor or agent suggests). And it means treating everyone from your editor's assistant to your readers with respect. Is there anything other than writing a good book that an aspiring author can or should do to be ready for signing their first deal? Sadly, there will always be things you can't control when it comes to the whole publishing process. Maybe you query an agent who just ate some bad sushi and who's taking it out on aspiring authors. Or maybe your editor gets fired and your book is orphaned. Or maybe some buyer in Des Moines is going through a rocky break-up and decides your protagonist reminds him too much of his ex and decides not to make an order. So I think you just have to rock out on the things within your grasp. Research the industry and the publishing process thoroughly. Make sure you send your query in to the right agent and in the right way. Make sure there are no typos. Be polite but persistent with the people you interact with. Now, enough of that businessy stuff. Rumor has it that you have a man-crush. Who is it and why? I'll admit it--I love Nathan Fillion. So yeah, he's Joss Whedon's muse, which is a pretty cool gig (most recently the two collaborated with Neil Patrick Harris in an internet musical called Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog). But he's also just an awesome actor. He can play scary baddies like Caleb in Buffy or grumpy heroes like Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly with equal aplomb (I'll still watch Serenity every time it's on TV). He made Slither bearable. Finally, he's a strong believer in the importance of reading, and helped found the nonprofit organization Kids Need to Read. See? Yet another reason we work so well together: We have the same taste in men. One last question. I think we'll all agree it's the most important one you'll answer this year: We all know your favorite client lives in Texas and writes urban fantasy. What makes her so great? Besides having great taste in agents? Well, she's an absolutely awesome writer, but I think the one thing that stands out most in Jaye's writing is that she's wicked funny. She doesn't let her humor distract you from the journey, but she makes you laugh along the way. And that, my friends, is why this man earns the big bucks. Got a question for Mr. Lyons? Ask away in comments. As a bonus, I'll give one lucky commenter a copy of Weirdly Vol. 2: Eldritch, which releases on June 24 from Wild Child Publishing. --Edited to fix weird symbols. Sorry bout that, folks. Labels: Interview, Jaye, Jonathan Lyons |
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~yearning~
Just wanted to say thank you to you both.
(Am excluded from the draw.)
What I would do for a Taco Cabana! Ah! A man after my own heart. I *miss* TC--after 8 years on the east coast, I've yet to find the same kind of Tex-Mex. Bea's Cafe in my books are modeled after Taco Cabana and Las Palapas, 2 of my favorite San Antonio eateries. :)
Loved the definition of urban fantasy vs. paranormal romance, I'd been struggling with explaining that.
Thanks for the interview!
I agree with maria lima... on the Mexican food, the totally helpful definition, and also the thanks for the interview bit.
My husband and I had the opportunity to eat in the food court under the I.M. Pei pyramid of the Louvre once, and they had a place there which purported to serve Mexican food... prawns in white sauce wrapped in crepes. Seriously.
Janet, that's just wrong. I think everyone's going to have to come to Texas for a League convention so we can hook you up with some fajitas and frozen margaritas.
You know what I also miss? All the mom and pop Mexican restaurants. They're often hard to find and tiny inside, but delicious.
Totally. And they're cheap. Is 9 am too early for Mexican food?
Oooh... Welcome to Jonathan and thank you for the information. Tis very helpful!
Questionwise: Pros/cons to coauthored materials? And if a story is written by more than one person does it work better to put one pen name down for author?
Thanks!
~J
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Nice to see you over at the League, Jonathan.
My question for you: Who do you think will win Euro 2008? Obviously, it would've been England but... um... as they never even qualified (*ahem*) that's not an option.
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*whaps her internet connection HARD* It apparently thinks that I should repeat everything I have to say multiple time. Thorry about that.
~J
J, I deleted the extra posts. No problem.
All the mom and pop Mexican restaurants
Jonathan, now you've got me craving lunch at El Milagrito on Woodlawn. Used to go there on Sunday mornings, making sure we'd get there before the church crowds got out.
Ooh, or a Henry's Puffy Taco.
::sighs::
Although, I don't miss the weather - just talked to my folks and it's been over 100 degrees most days this past week.
Great interview. Thanks for the insight into the business side of the books...and the magic of Nathan Fillion.
I'm neither pro nor con to co-authors, and I think it's ok to list both names.
My money is on ze Germans in soccer.
The lawyer in me feels the need to qualify one thing. While generally urban fantasy gets higher advances and sells better than paranormal romance, this certainly isn't always the case.
Having tried to glean all the magical knowledge possible from many agent blogs, yours included, my question is what do you consider over-done or passe? Are there typical plots/ characters that you've seen far too much of?
Thanks for the awesome interview, Jaye and Jonathan!
I live in Colorado where we have killer Mexican food as well. I couldn't live without my smothered cheese enchilada fix (and 9am is NOT too early)!
Jonathan, what makes a heroine annoying or inaccessible to you? Is a healthy dose of (well-balanced) darkness enough to merit a big red rejection stamp? Or does it make her more intriguing if she has a few bad guys in her little black book?
Thanks again!
Heh...I can't speak as an agent, but I know I prefer a hero or heroine with a little bit of dark to their past. It's much more interesting to read about than someone who had a perfect everything. I think you can get to the point of over done where NOTHING has ever gone right and it seems like it's impossible that this person survived to adulthood. So personally I'm in the camp of a good hook that doesn't jump the shark. Keeps me reading. :)
Great interview and thank you for the insight.
I, too, am interested in your answers to the accessibility and what has been overdone questions.
Lisa T.
Jonathan, hi! I very much enjoyed your post - you are fun! The definition of urban fantasy v. paranormal romance is super.
Jaye, it's great to see you here, and I look forward to catching up with you in SF.
Light,
Nancy Haddock
La Vida Vampire
I love me some Taco Cabans but sadly the two in Amarillo closed down so I only get to eat there when I travel south.
And I have a question regarding small publsihers.
Do you think it hinders a writer's career to publish a novel with a small publisher?
I realize a lot depends on sales numbers but how often does a writer who forgoes the traditional methods of signing with an agent and going wiht a large or even midsize publisher ever make that transition to a larger New York house? Is there a stigma that follows an author. that maybe they weren't good enough and that is why they signed with one of these small publishers?
In regard to passe - it all depends on the writing. What might sound overdone might come to life on paper. I wish I could say there are things to just avoid, but in the proper hands anything can be cool. I think that's where other agents and editors have gotten in trouble re: vampires - sure, there are a lot of vampire books in the genre right now, but if you come at it in an original way and it's well written then there's probably a place for it with readers.
As for an inaccessible hero, I don't mind dark. In fact, I like and prefer it. But the reader has to want to root for the protagonist even though they are flawed (even fundamentally). It's all about finding the right balance.
I don't think I would advocate going with a smaller publisher without first trying the bigger houses. Though there are certainly benefits to being published by a small press, I think overall the positives that come with being published by a Random House typically outweigh the negatives (there are exceptions to this of course). But if the smaller press does a good job than it can certainly be a stepping stone to greater things.
No questions, just wanted to say thanks for a good interview. Very insightful and such.
Excellent interview, and here's the question:
If a writer is considered a "commodity" (their word, because the writer is in many of their collections and anthologies)with a small publisher who has a good track record and reputation, and this small publisher offers to publish the writer's novel if the writer is willing to pay a copyediting fee of 600.00, would it be wise for this writer to consider the offer? Clearly they aren't making much money on 600.00, and they don't do this often, practically never. It's just that they don't have the resources to take chances with single author titles unless they are perfect (the senior editor is outrageously detailed, and the writer has learned so much already by working with him, and has never been disappointed in the final release of any book). Also, their distribution is pretty solid and they pay well and on time.
Thanks. I feel a little guilty because this is such an ambiguous question, but something like this really did happen recently.
Great questions, you guys.
Nancy, no SF for me this year. I'll probably make it DC next year though.
Ryan - It depends on the details of the situation. I would say that generally you don't want to be working with any publisher that charges you money (unless its for an index and charged against any money due to you from sales), but there might be a ton of reasons (including a few you mentioned) to make an exception.
Hi, Jonathan. No questions, I just popped in to say thanks for doing this interview today. Very interesting. Mark Henry announced on my Paranormal Mystery Writers group that you'd be here and I passed it on to some of my other groups, too. So don't be surprised if you get a sudden increase in queries. Ha! 8^)
No decent Mexican food? Gasp!
(My personal favorite is a little hole in the wall place called Rudy's in Irving on Belt Line. Best. Chimi. Evar.)
And wow, I find it interesting that UF gets higher advances than paranormal romance does. Do you think that's because it's more of an LKH factor, whereas paranormal romance is treated more like just another standard subgenre of romance?
Great interview!
I think you nailed it on the head. Romance advances are generally pretty rigid (and low) unless you have sales to back them up. The same could be said for urban fantasy, but because of the potential for debut break out and the success of authors like LKH, KH, and JB publishers have shown a willingness to take chances.
Great interview. We appreciate you taking the time to answer so many questions.
BTW, fajitas are my weakness.
No question; just wanted to be in the running for the prize, because I'm greedy this way ;-)
I love Taco Bill - that's what it's called here in Oz. Might be the equivalent of Taco Bell in the US. It may only be pseudo-Mexican (not authentic), but it freaking rocks, and they're desserts are creative and tasty. Me want cinnamon crisps!
Have a lovely day! :-)
How do you get to meet the authors you represent and how often do you see them face to face?
(it was an interesting interview to read, thank you to you both!)
Just wanted to thank you for such an informative interview.
I'm with you on the Germans to win it. You can never count them out in a big tournament, especially now that Podolski's being played. Too bad they've got him glued to the bench at Bayern Munich.
First of all, regarding Texas, I've never seen any other state with a drive-thru frozen margarita place. I'm from bourbon country and you'd never find a drive-thru Jim-and-Coke place in central Kentucky.
Anyway, Jonathan, I could ask you why you rejected my wonderful manuscript (wink, wink), but instead I'll ask you what the one question is that you wish prospective authors would ask you and how you would respond.
Yes, it's a cop-out, but it's what you get for your kind rejection ;)
Seattle is the same way no Mexican food, it's all grease and cheese. Is Young Adult still a "wide open "genre? What are soem specifi criteria for YA?
ugh my keyboard is breaking..the question is about YA. Is it still a wide open field, and are there specific criteria? Sorry..time for new keyboard.
I've noticed that urban fantasies are loosely based around the private detective format, like a mystery. What about an urban fantasy based around a thriller format? Do you think there might be a market for that?
Great interview--and how can you not love a guy who is an attorney, an agent and loves vomit as well?
Sorry, I was away from my computer most of Sunday.
I'd say I've met half of my clients face to face. Eventually they either come to NYC or I'm their area.
Hmm, can't think of the one thing prospective authors should ask me, beyond how do I accept queries (only via my agency website).
I don't handle a ton of YA, but to the best of my knowledge the field is still wide open and the only specific criteria is that it be suitable for a young adult audience.
Linda - sure, that could work (re: thrillers)!
no question.
great and fun interview!
thank you for participating jonathan and hooking us up, jaye! =D
ps. i agree. when i lived in nyc and london, great mexican food is what i missed most. thank goodness i live in san diego now. =D