 I've got some exciting news, all through out the week, Catie (that's C.E. Murphy to you hambones) will be stopping by to answer questions, add commentary and just generally hang out.  AND...on Friday, one lucky commenter will win a copy of the new Negotiator novel, House of Cards! Be one of the first to get yourself some more Margrit and Alban!So...we're all set up in the League Lounge, Stacia's mixing up a pitcher of mojitos (I know it's early. Writers, heh-heh) and the conversation pit is all warmed up. Let's start with some ground rules. As I said when I first announced the League's Book Club, the purpose is not to find out whether you like a book or not (we don't care), it's to talk about the emotions and thoughts that resonate from the experience of reading. In our case, we're going to be lookin' to have fun with themes, characters that remind us what goobers we are, and situations that trigger memories. 1. The first rule of book club, don't talk about...oh wait...yeah talk about it, let people know what we're doing here. We're like the frickin' Mother Theresa's of Urban Fantasy and Paranormal Romance! 2. No author bashing. Most of our readers are also writers, you know how hard it is to get these words down, let alone into sellable shape. Bashing is just bad form. 3. Please limit your profanity to acceptable levels. 4. Arguments won't be tolerated. If anyone gets snippy, they're gonna get deleted...or worse. Remember. Be nice and we won't have to call Gary the Hellspawn to...correct you. Now... Feel free to ask new questions as we go, but we'll start a topic each day this week and try to keep it rolling all day long, either in the comments or as an update to the daily club post. So keep checking back. Question #1: Who was your favorite Heart of Stone character? Why? Is there a specific quality that resonates with you? There you be...let's go! |
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I'd have to be obvious here and answer the question with "Grit."
When not talking smack to Mark and Anton online, I'm a legal aid lawyer by day. Civil division, not criminal. Still, I think Murphy did a good job of drawing a character that fit into that world. She has the adrenalin-junkie tendencies of many litigators I know, but also a caring/cerebral side.
Oh, sure, NOW I find somebody who actually works in Legal Aid...
A while ago, somebody questioned whether I was going to successfully and accurately write a Legal Aid criminal case lawyer, and my first reaction was, "I think I can guarantee I will write a *flawless* rendition of a LA criminal case lawyer whose main client is a gargoyle." I held back the snark at the time, but actually, it's really nice to know someone in that field thinks I did a decent job of creating someone who could fit into that world.
Hey, Mark, do I get to answer the questions too? :)
-Catie
Hey Catie - you answer or ask whatever you like! Or you and Todd can just talk about law and litigators who hug.
Hey Todd - Are you a caring-cerebral lawyer?
I'm so behind. I JUST bought this book last friday. Must read like the wind! Gah!
I really liked the gargoyle aspect of the book. I'm a nerd, I know. But I remember the TV show Gargoyles and I wondered why more Gargoyles haven't shown up in UF yet. :)
I'm going to have to say Janx.
He was so decadently evil, yet accommodating at the same time. From the time Margrit first left his headquarters/lair, I was looking forward to the next time he would appear. I found him extremely interesting.
Janice has been naughty everyone. *cracks the whip* Read Janice Read!
Jill, there's a gargoyle in Mark Del Franco's Unshapely Things but only briefly. I love gargoyles. I wanted more more MORE!
Stacey - So what's the attraction? Evil?
*hangs head in shame* I haven't, um, read this one yet. But I want to! SO bad! The whole gargoyle aspect seems awesome and I can't wait to finally read the book.
Back to your scheduled programming. :)
Personally, I'd also have to say that Janx is also my favorite character. He's eloquent and smooth, but there is also an underwrit sense of power that he carries like a cloak.
I also love how he talks, and acts - all the traits that make him such a believable and solid character. The way his eyes are indicators of his emotions.
The fact, as Margrit pointed out in the book, that he may be a criminal, but he's one with a very strong sense of honor is another reason why I like him. The feeling that Margrit is treading very dangerous ground when she goes to his lair to meet him.
I always find myself gripping the book white-knuckled as I read through the scenes with Janx, yet like Stacey Mentioned earlier, I always find myself looking forward to the next time he'll appear.
-Katie
@Mark: I'm in the office on a day I already took off, so I can try to help a client settle a case.
So maybe not caring-cerebral as much as gullible-moronic, but it works out.
@Catie: Well, I work in a small office so I wouldn't have been too much help, but I did mean to ask you about your research on that. I felt it was a good (if not overly detailed) look into her work-life.
My favorite character is a toss up between Janx and Alban.
I know Janx is evil, but I like to think "good" side.
Alban is the lonely misunderstood guy and I identified with his isolation.
I'm both surprised and not by the Janx love. Were it not for the lawyer aspect that made Margrit stand out for me, I might be agreeing. The bad guy who does good (out of honor? hidden motives? a secret good side?) is always a huge draw. Someone who crosses those good/evil lines is usually a fun character.
One aspect of Margrit I didn't mention earlier was race. There seem to be very few persons of color in leading roles in fantasy fiction (although I'm sure an avalanche of correction may follow...) but it was interesting to read about a character with a different background.
mm - I agree with tmthomas wish his comment on Margrit's heritage.
I haven't come across a lot of main characters in the genre who are of a different heritage or color. I realize I haven't read everything, but from what I have read, the protagonists generally share the fact that they're not of a different ethnicity.
ok I am bad to I haven't read the newest one..it's on my bookshelf! I blame Mark for his book...ha ha snerk! But my question is what kid of research have done in shamanism, magick? (or if you haven't..)
I hope that came our right? no Mark not the whip...;-)
Synde
Cherie Priest's Eden Moore series and LA Banks Huntress series both have African American protagonists. I'm trying to think of others, and I know there are some. Oh. Liz Williams Detective Inspector Chen.
Any more?
Good question, Synde. Catie? Catie?
She'll turn up sooner or later.
Would everyone who hasn't vote for the next book club book?
This post has been removed by the author.
I'm reading Happy Hour at Casa Dracula by Marta Acosta at the moment. Milagro, the protagonist, is Latina.
Mark - Hmm. The Janx attraction. I'll have to say that it's the style that he effortlessly pulls off while being crime-lordishly evil. (Or in other words - Yeah, what Katie said. Great post, Katie!)
I'll have to go with Alban...I've always liked gargoyles, and I would have to say I just felt for him on being alone for so long..
After that it would have to be Janx, he just has that cool bada@# vibe going on...
I gotta say I liked Janx the best. He had more of a personality then Alban. I'm always more attracted to the guy who's a little more edgier. I will always pick Spike and Logan. Spike and Logan are from Buffy & Veronica Mars. Just in case no one knew. Just in case.
Synde asked:
But my question is what kid of research have done in shamanism, magick? (or if you haven't..)
I read everything I could get my hands on before I started writing the Walker Papers. :)
I've read probably...a dozen books on shamanism, and one of the things I'm looking forward to with starting the next book in that series is an excuse to go buy and read some more. Just to brush up, y'know. O.O A handful of titles, off the top of my head, are THE WAY OF THE SHAMAN, URBAN SHAMAN (someone else's URBAN SHAMAN, yes--about shamans in Hawaii), THE EAGLE'S QUEST (one of my favorites: it's about a physicist, I believe, who went off to debunk shamanism and came back a believer), THE SPIRIT OF SHAMANISM, and THE CELTIC SHAMAN. There's a new book out called CITY SHAMAN that I really, *really* want to read, too...
One of the things I found *incredibly* fascinating was that in shamanic cultures the world around (and every culture does have its shamans: the word, though deeply associated with Native Americans, at least *in* America, is arguably an Indian-continent word, or possibly Siberian; nobody really knows, it seems) the experiences shared by shamans are so very, very similar. That was surprising and really interesting to me.
So when I started writing, what I tried to do was incorporate those similarities, but write it in a way that would...both make sense to the *character* (because we all know Jo does not want to face up to the Other world around her) and would hopefully make sense to the readers as well.
I was also very aware, while writing, that I was dealing with an active spiritual pratice. I honestly expected to have to say to shamanic practitioners regarding the magic in the Walker Papers, "Well, y'know, it's just a story, it's just fiction." Instead I've had a surprising number of practitioners take the time to tell me how *right* I got the magic. I've been floored and delighted by that response.
-Catie
tmthomas asked:
I did mean to ask you about your research on that. I felt it was a good (if not overly detailed) look into her work-life.
I hit the 'net and began searching for the kinds of cases criminal lawyers (particularly) in Legal Aid dealt with, and to try to get enough legal terminology right to not embarrass myself with it. :) I used everything from news stories to NYC's Legal Aid site to try to get a sense of not just the work, but when I could, the people behind the work.
One of the things I wanted to do with Margrit, as opposed to Jo, was give Margrit a real grounding in the real world. Jo's world turns upside-down literally on what, the third page of the first book? (*goes to check* 5th page. Close enough. :)) We never get to see her established in her routine, anchored in the world as she knows it. We *hear* about the world she knows, but we don't see it.
With Margrit, I wanted everyone to see it, so it was very important to me to incorporate her job, her friends, her family, into the story in a way the Walker Papers don't. I couldn't let the job overwhelm the story, but at the same time, I needed to get in there and use it as a vehicle of showing her persistence, her tenacity, and her moral center.
So your reaction, Todd, really pleases me; it makes me feel like I hit the balance between enough job to show readers what she does, and not too much to be overwhelming. The fact that you're actually in that field is icing on the cake.
(You're going to give the book to all your coworkers to read now, right? :))
-Catie
Man, I am so pleased people like Janx. Hee hee hee. :) He's one of my favorite characters, too. (I mean, I love 'em all, don't I; I wrote 'em. But I do love Janx. :))
-Catie
On Margrit's ethnic background: there's not a lot of non-white leads in fantasy novels, it's true, but I do think that's starting to change a little, maybe particularly with the urban fantasy landscape (Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, and Samuel Delaney's books, obviously, are older examples of fantasy novel lead characters who aren't white). Neil Gaiman's AMERICAN GODS has an entirely black cast, except, as he said, once in a while when somebody mentions that so-and-so is a white guy. I think that maybe especially for urban fantasy it's harder to have lily-white casts and be at all reflective of the actual urban environment around you, and that people are becoming more aware of that.
For me, Margrit was a case of, literally, I was in the shower one morning and the character leapt into my head pretty much fully formed. A black woman lawyer who ran in Central Park at night, who fit into the Beauty and the Beast/gargoyle story I wanted to write. Boom, there it was. I hadn't been, like, toying with the idea of a black lead or anything; she just turned up in my head and said, "This is who I am."
It was only considerably after that that I realized the only ethnically white-European-lead type character I've ever written for publication (oh, no, wait, there was a short story whose lead was white, but then, she was a 1940s Hollywood starlet) is Belinda in THE QUEEN'S BASTARD...which is set in 1587 in an alternate-world England. There wasn't an *enormous* amount of room for ethnic wiggling there. :)
Other than that, well, Jo's half Cherokee, Margrit's black, and Alisha, the main character of my Strongbox Chronicles trilogy written under the name Cate Dermody, is Hispanic. None of that was set out with the purpose of Writing A Non-White Character; Jo needed the two sides of her ethnic heritage for the story, Alisha, a spy, needed to be able to fit in to cultures other than white America or Europe, and Margrit just turned up fully formed, like Athena unto Zeus.
Gawd, I've come and heavy-loaded the end of this post, haven't I? But I'll probably do it again tomorrow, since I'm fairly likely to stop by in the mornings my time and respond to the previous day's comments and questions. :)
-Catie
I have 2 favorites:
Janx: I like Janx because the character has depth and I can imagine more involvement with his character in this universe. It will be interesting to see how his role will develop in the storytelling process. To me he is a negative reflection of Alban and Grit, at least so far!
Grit: I like Grit because she is every-woman and there is a connection between her character’s definition and anyone of us. Take an ordinary character and place her in an extraordinary scenario and see what happens.
I like Alban. He is such a fabulous creature, and so well drawn. I love the look of him in both his forms - he is such a unique character. And the whole tragic-longing-from-afar protection of Margrit is great. There are other heros where it would just be creepy, but Alban pulls it off. The way wears his otherworldliness hard, so to speak, gives him great dimensionality. What I mean is, he's not of the human world, yet somewhat exiled from his own monster world. I love when they're on the stairs and he turns a "steady look" on Margrit and says, "when a beautiful woman invites you to her apartment, only a fool says no. I may not be a man, but I'm also not a fool." That can sound like a throwaway romance line, but it sums up something about Alban for me.
Gotta be Alban. In a genre dominated by "tough guy" male leads, it's really refreshing for the male lead to be someone who has a strong internal(?) quality.
I have to agree with Jill, I LOVE the gargoyles!! I too remember the show. But, my fave individual character is Janx as well. Every girl likes the bad boy... we just can't help ourselves.
I have to admit that I also have two faves.
Alban because he is a hero without being all alpha-y. What I mean by that is his strength doesn't need bravado or swagger. It just is. Not that bravado and swagger aren't fun too, it is just refreshing to see something different.
And Janx because he is self-serving with a strong sense of honor. Those things are and will continue to be at odds with each other and will make his choices interesting and somewhat unexpected. I look forward to seeing what he has up his sleeve.
dang - I've been on vacation with out a computer.. and come back to all kinds of UF fun. I read Heart of Stone when it first came out.. hell, I was shelving it @ work and was all.. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!
gargoyles!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
Oooooh.. GARGOYLES!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
but I gotta say, I kinda like Janx too. for being such a suave bastard! ;)
imna have to re-read it before the next book.
I read the book while on a trip to Denver last weekend. I have to say Janx is way up there on my fave list, but also Grit. The two are great sparring partners, and she brings out the best in him. At least the parts I like best. Heh. 8^) What a fascinating concept for a dragon. The honor among thieves thing is great. The fascinating polarity within well-drawn villains has always intrigued me, and Janx is a perfect example of that.
You all got me so curious, I went and bought the book today. So no good comments from me, but the book looks mag and I can't wait to start it. Loved the Urban Shaman series so I would have gotten to this book eventually anyway.
Wow - so many fabulous posts!
For all the folks who haven't yet read Heart of Stone, oh boy, you're in for a marvelous read. Once I picked it up, I couldn't put it down.
I have a question for Catie though, you mentioned in one of your earlier posts that Grit walked into you head - fully formed, saying 'this is who I am'. Has this been the case with all or most of your characters? If not, how many character revisions go into making them so... tangibly real?
-Katie